Earthdawn Crossover

Ich bin überrascht. - Bisher hatten wir noch keine Diskussion über das berühmte offiziell-inoffiziell-ruhend-abgeschlossen-nie-gewesene Crossover?

mfG
jdw

Ja, und das ist wohl auch besser so.

Das ED-Crossover bitte in eine stabile Stahlkiste sperren, in einen tiefen See versenken, Schlüssel wegwerfen und dann vergessen. Danke.

? worüber labert ihr?

Skyrock schrieb:

Ja, und das ist wohl auch besser so.

Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Ansichtssache.

mfG
jdw

Agroschim schrieb:

? worüber labert ihr?

Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Die Verbindung von Shadowrun mit dem Fantasy System Earthdawn.

mfG
jdw

blut_und_glas schrieb:

Ansichtssache.

Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Eben

Und ich bin eben der Ansicht Geisterdrachen, Flugschiffe und ganz besonders Windlinge(die zähle ich jetzt extra nur für b_u_g mit auf *fg* ) haben in SR nichts verloren.

Skyrock schrieb:

Windlinge(die zähle ich jetzt extra nur für b_u_g mit auf *fg* )

Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Danke für diese Vorlage.

Das ist mir doch glatt ein neues Thema wert.

mfG
jdw

Ich finde diese Verbindung ziemlich geil...ein sehr schön düsterer Dark Fantasy Aufhänger für SR!


H

Ich persönlich fand die Idee nicht schlecht, allerdings hat man Sie zu sehr in den Vordergrund drängen lassen (Drachenherz-Triologie, Harlekins back etc), das hat ihr in meinen Augen mehr geschadet als genützt.

Hier und da ein paar Anhaltspunkte und gut wäre es gewesen. Dieser Metaplot war einfach zu riesig, episch zu viel Fantasy für SR auf einen Punkt, imho.

Wenn man es so gemacht hätte wie gerade jetzt wieder im Sota (hoffe das ich die Bücher nicht durcheinander werfe) wäre es prima gewesen. Die Insider hätten genug zum Diskutieren und einbauen gehabt und die Outsider hätte es nicht weiter gestört. So wurden durch die Autoren ein mehr oder wenig breiter graben durch die Fan Gemeinde gegraben, was diesen Punkt betrifft. Und das hat der Sachen keinen Gefallen getan

Also ich bin gegen irgendwelche Fusionierungen zwischen vorhanden Rollensystemen.

Shadowrun sollte das bleiben was es ist und nicht noch Regeln oder Ausrüstungsegment aus anderen Spielen übernehmen.

mfg

Die "Fusion" wurde allerdings von Autorenseite vorgenommen...

mfG
jdw

Zudem wäre das sicher eine ganze menge arbeit geworden,.. immerhin kannst du ja theoretisch jeden Mage in deiner gruppe kicken genau wie die Ki addepten es sei den sie lernen schnell durch eine Matrix zu zaubern,..
zudem stelle ich mir die Erklärungen lustig vor
Joey ist ein Giftgeist stufe 9,..

Wir hatten mal soetweas ähnliches in Anlehnung an Earthdawn eine Pyramide in Alaska die wir untersuchen sollten die "Plötzlich" aufgetaucht ist, sie bestand vollständig aus Oricalcum (auf die frage ob wir stücke abbrechen dürfen kamm ein Deutliches nein,.. kein flexibler spielleiter,.......) Und in ihr haben Wesenheiten wie beiser und so gelebt und im inneren war ein Tor auf die Ebene von,.. <<kopfkratz>> diesem Übermonster das Drachen frisst und mehrere kilometer gross ist,.. Verijorm??

Naja, war ganz lustig und mal was anderes,...

Verjigorm.

mfG
jdw

AW: Earthdawn Crossover

ich finde es allerdings bemerkenswert, das in einem der beiden SOTA bücher ein wenig über die ork kultur steht. insbesondere möchte ich hier auf die ork sprache eingehen, da viele dieser begriffe schon in ED (zuerst) vorkamen!
es mag zwar sein, das das crossen aufgehört hat, aber es ist dennoch schade! ich fand harlekin II nicht schlecht.
gut es mag vll ein wenig viel fantasy sein und der metaplot ist auch etwas groß, aber es wurde ja auch in einigen romanen und quellenbüchern etwas erwähnt und schon viel dafür getan.
ich finds schade das sie davon abstand nehmen.

AW: Earthdawn Crossover

Also genau das hab ich zwar anderswo schon mal gepostet aber viel spaß beim lesen:

Sodele, hier mal was ich an information finden konnte. Das word dukoment ist unterschrieben mit 1995 aber erstellt wurde es laut dateiinfo 2000 von einem Panthyr. Was mir selbst aufgefallen ist: Da ist in "Paranormal animals of Europe" auf Seite 3 ein Windling in dem Mund von dem riesigen Chamaelion... Viel Spaß beim lesen:


There are a number of links that prove that Earthdawn takes place on the same world as Shadowrun; and is, in fact, the Fourth World (as opposed to Shadowrun's Sixth World). The obvious proof to this is that the FASA folks admitted it when questioned at a convention , but to help back that claim, here are most of the printed and observed links between Earthdawn and Shadowrun:
Shadowrun Sources:
SHADOWRUN RULES:
In the introduction to the Critters section, reference is made to the possible origins of Dragons. One of them includes the idea that Dragons may have slept somehow until the mana level reached a sufficiently high point.

Also, Sperethiel is given as the name of the Elvish language, which is the same name the Elven language has in Earthdawn.
SEATTLE SOURCEBOOK:
The Atlantean Foundation is reviewed. While a minor link, it should be noted that the AF believes that a lot of the true mystic history of the Shadowrun world could be revealed if they could find the remains of Atlantis. Thera, in Earthdawn, is the actual name of an island near Greece which is commonly held to be the site that Plato based his Atlantis stories upon -- both were destroyed in some horrible accident.
BOTTLED DEMON:
Arleesh the Great Feathered Serpent remembers a previous age of magic where she and other Great Dragons banded together to destroy and/or abolish the evil forces behind the Bottle. First establishment of fact that the Dragons did exist in a prior age of the Earth, and first establishment that there are metaplanes quite beyond the eight established Shadowrun metaplanes, and that the inhabitants of such places are not only immicible to normal life, but purely evil as well; obviously the Horrors of Earthdawn.
HARLEQUIN:
The first confirmation of immortals beyond Free Spirits and Dragons in the Shadowrun world, Harlequin and Ehran are both shown to have lived in pre-Revolution France, and make reference to have lived for a long, long time before that. The chal'han that Harlequin performs here is a specific form of the Ritual of Challenge mentioned in the TIR TAIRNGIRE sourcebook, which is also similar to like rituals performed in Thera, as per the BARSAIVE sourcebook. Harlequin and Ehran also converse in a language that predates Sperethiel, a mystery language that is mentioned in both DENIZENS OF EARTHDAWN I and TIR TAIRNGIRE.
Wyrm Talk:
A source of a lot of tie ins, being as it is a conversation between Dunklezahn the Dragon and Harlequin the Elf, both holdovers from at least the Fourth World. Both make obvious references to having been around a while, and both refer to the Invae, remarking that humanity seems to be holding their own against the Invae without too much trouble. As per the BARSAIVE sourcebook, the Invae are clearly confirmed to be the Insect Spirits from Shadowrun.
GUIDE TO PARANORMAL ANIMALS OF EUROPE:
The Sprite is shown, which is obviously a Windling from Earthdawn. Likewise, under the Wraith description, the netter -H- (an abbreviation that Harlequin has used in the past) says "Kill these Horrors whenever you encounter them. They are Evil, if anything is." -H- also says that the Wraiths will be just the fore- runners of something much worse if Earth cannot stem the tide now. In the Earthdawn rules, in the history of Barsaive section, descriptions given of the Signs of the Scourge describe mist-like wraith beings driving men to violence against one another, which matches exactly the description and powers of the Shadowrun Wraith.
Never Trust An Elf:
A novel, in which more references to immortals are made -- indeed, the fact that some elves may be immortal is a major point of the plot. Lofwyr mentions to Khan the Ork that the Orks were once the slaves of the Elves, a long time ago. In Earthdawn, the Orks were the only Name-Giving race regularly enslaved by all the rest.
TIR TAIRNGIRE SOURCEBOOK:
A feast of plenty for immortal elf evidence, including a large conversation between confused runners and Dunklezahn the dragon, pointing to, among other things, the fact that some elves are immortal, the fact that there was a Fourth World (and a Second -- the Dragon Age, according to Earthdawn -- as well), and that there is a secret language that the ruling elves of Tir Tairngire speak that isn't Elvish (c.f.: Harlequin and Ehran's discussion in HARLEQUIN).

Likewise, mention is made by some runner that some Druids in Tir Tairngire are shamans, but they follow Passions instead of totems (to which Harlequin replies "You're a dead man. I'll send flowers."). The Passions, of course, are the great guiding spirits of life in Earthdawn. A Prince of the Tir is called "our dear sweet Blood Queen" by Harlequin, and an anonymous report from a runner says that they saw a picture, in that Prince's house (Prince is a title that can refer to male or female Elves in the Tir) of apparently the same woman, but with thorns growing out of her body. The Blood Elves of Earthdawn, of course, have the same condition. Another of the Princes is reported to have blasted to atoms some rose bushes that his wife planted behind their house without his permission.

Meanwhile, Crater Lake receives a lot of discussion, and facts are revealed that it would have been created some 7000 years before the current Shadowrun date, which fits in neatly with the end of the Fourth World and the beginning of the Fifth (the Mayan Long Count, which Dunklezahn himself says is "more accurate than most"). High amounts of magic are associated with the lake, and the Tir cordoned it off after the general knowledge that it was believed to have been created 7000 years ago leaked out.
TIR NA NOG SOURCEBOOK:
More immortal elf evidence, which by now is so commonplace that it's almost not worth noting -- in this case, the spike baby elves in Ireland knew of the Awakening before it was going to happen, and thus were able to arrange things so they could more easily take over Ireland when it came around.

Most blatantly, the description of the Ways and Paths is nearly exactly the same as the Paths described in DENIZENS I. Likewise, the function and purpose of the Seelie Court in TIR NA NOG is that of the Court of the Elven Queen (at least before the Corruption) in Earthdawn (presented in DENIZENS I), that of preserving and setting by example the strictures of Elven society. Likewise, both sources mention the unique spirits of the Great Firey Path.
Out Of The Past:
A short story, this one has a strange spirit that resembles, in conduct and appearance, the Passion Vestrial, visiting a drunken Harlequin late one night. Obvious overtones to the Scourge are made, with Harlequin desperately trying to convince himself that it won't happen again, and Vestrial insisting that it will, especially since the Great Ghost Dance helped things along. Reference is also made to the Northern Isles and the Knights of the Crimson Spire, which is the setting of the famous Elven City of Towers in DENIZENS I. Harlequin is apparently the last surviving member of that order. Harlequin also refers to the metaplanes as netherworlds, and then corrects his error, which is the usual term used for them in Earthdawn.
Night's Pawn:
A novel, in which Alamaise the Great Dragon (Lofwyr's brother) plays an important part. Nothing upfront about Earthdawn, but Alamaise is listed as one of the Great Dragons of Barsaive in the Earthdawn rules.
Earthdawn Sources:
EARTHDAWN RULES:
A Great Form earth elemental is referred to in the opening history of Thera and Barsaive; Shadowrun has Great Form spirits. In the same story, Wraiths from the PARANORMAL ANIMALS OF EUROPE are mentioned, as well as insect beings that take over Name-Giver bodies and souls -- the Insect Spirits (Invae) of Shadowrun.

The races (or at least the humanoid ones) are the same as Shadowrun. Sperethiel is, once again, the name for the Elven tongue. References are made to immortal elves. Dragons are divided into two types, normal and Great, just like Shadowrun. Of the Great Dragons, Alamaise (from Night's Pawn) is listed under that name, while the Great Dragon Mountainshadow is said to have a human pawn/servant known as Darktooth. In German, Darktooth is Dunkelzahn. Given Mountainshadow's similar personality to Dunkelzahn, it's pretty clear that they're the same Dragon. Magicians are divided into adepts and full spellcasters, like Shadowrun (although the Earthdawn adepts have, admittedly, far greater powers than their Shadowrun counterparts).

The magical theory of both games is similar. Astral beings can't pass through unmolested earth (thus the sanctity of most kaers), emotional trauma (including the Scourge) pollutes astral space, and so on. The Passions are also described, matching the reference to them in TIR TAIRNGIRE and Harlequin's Back. References are made to ages of magic cycled with ages of nonmagic, just like in TIR TAIRNGIRE. Both games make use of orichalcum, a rare magical alloy.

The map of Barsaive fits the description of the lower Russian landmass between the Caspian and Black Seas.
BARSAIVE SOURCEBOOKS:
The Invae are clearly described and are obviously the Insect Spirits from Shadowrun. They even have partially invaded/taken over a cult (of Chorollis), just as in Shadowrun.

Mountainshadow's personality is more clearly defined; he's obviously Dunkelzahn. Thera is said to lay far to the southwest of Barsaive in the Selstrian Sea, which is an obvious match to the Barsaive map being in Russia if Thera is Atlantis, located at the real-world Thera in the Mediterranean Sea.

There's a short rundown of Theran society, which shares many similarities between that and Tir Tairngire.
The Longing Ring and Poisoned Memories:
Novels, good only to reestablish the belief that Mountainshadow is Dunkelzahn. Well, they're good for other reasons, but for our purposes those are all that apply.
DENIZENS OF EARTHDAWN VOLUME I:
Mentions that Elvish language older than Sperethiel, again. Mentions that Alamaise killed the Elf Queen. Gives the theory of the Great Wheel of Life and the Five Paths that the Elves walk on it, which is functionably the same as the Ways and Paths of TIR NA NOG.

The human section brings up the Earthdawn theory that humankind is the only Name-Giver to exist in low mana periods, and that when the magic arises it causes some humans to change into other forms of Name-Givers. This is Shadowrun's Goblinization.
Guesswork:
While I'm convinced that Earthdawn and Shadowrun share the same world, here's some meandering guesses on what the events in Shadowrun have to do with the events in Earthdawn.

Tir Tairngire is almost certainly the rebirth of Thera, or at least Shoshara, the original renegade Elven nation. They share the same rituals, and general attitude of adopting new technology to help them keep their powerbase in the world. To counterpart them, then, Tir Na nOg is the Wyrm Wood once more, if its not obvious enough from their insistance on being the true repository of Elven culture.

This does make it a bit difficult to explain why the Blood Queen is currently in Tir Tairngire, however. My take is that Alachia is listed, in the BARSAIVE sourcebooks, as having some second thoughts about how great an idea the Ritual of the Thorns was, really. Pride and her position would keep her from admitting it in Earthdawn right now, of course, but if she ever did come around and try to say she was wrong, her subjects in the Wyrm Wood, angered at their Queen actually trying to say that all this pain they went through on her account was a mistake, and that they really should be ashamed of themselves, turn on her. She flees to Thera/Shoshara for protection, and that sets up matters for the Sixth World. Tir Tairngire is heavy into genetic research so they can find a way to remove the grow painful thorns portion of their DNA before the mana level gets high enough for the Ritual of Thorns to have power again.

As to why Elves hate Dragons, the Great Dragon Alamaise nuked their Queen and all her attendants some centuries before the Scourge. That would undoubtfully go a long way to fostering bad Elf/Dragon relationships.

Questions and comments on the Earthdawn list, of course, are gladly taken. Send them to dhenry@plains.nodak.edu.


Author: David R Henry mailto:dhenry@plains.nodak.edu
Author: Chris Ryan mailto:cryan@plugged.net.au
Last Updated 8th December 1995

AW: Earthdawn Crossover

jaja.. ich erinnere mich. ich hab das auch irgendwo schonmal gelesen.
aber man kann zweifellos eine verbindung sehen...auch wenn die evtl künstlich erst hergestellt wurde.
aber eine frage bleibt offen:
warum haben sie die orksprache im sota reingebracht, obwohl doch eigentlich das alles wieder getrennt sein soll?

AW: Earthdawn Crossover

Wail Orgsprech glasse izt!

AW: Earthdawn Crossover

weil alle ujnort da draußen voll quaalz sind und nicht verstehen was es heißt ein ork zu sein!

AW: Earthdawn Crossover

Fand die eigentliche Idee eine X-O nicht schlecht, sie war mir nur zu massiv. Mir wäre es lieber gewesen hier und da ein paar Andeutungen die man nicht wirklich missverstehen könnte un d es dann dabei bleiben zu lassen.

So haben sie es versaut was die FASA Jungs dann aber auch gemerkt haben

AW: Earthdawn Crossover

Im Schtten der 6.Welt ([amazon=3890645042]Shadowrun – die 6. Welt[/amazon]) gibt es auch ein Kapitel über das Thema.